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Author Topic: Ideological Discussion  (Read 6200 times)

ErebusTheDark

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Ideological Discussion
« on: October 25, 2011, 12:06:22 AM »
Shit title.
But basically, any social/political/potpourri topics/questions are welcome.
Anything is open, let's just keep it civil.

I'll start..

Should we have rent control/rent stabilization on apartments?

Should churches pay taxes?

Be sure to cite sources to back up any statistics.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 08:46:50 PM by Erebus »

Anton

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Re: ideological Discussion
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2011, 12:31:19 AM »
I am a communist who believes society at all is just evil and that the world should not even try to progress.

Sorry man, it's the genes of a swede.
Quite honestly though I'm not as far as I am aware ideologically bound. I'm just quite humanistic all the time, For one thing I believe everything built to kill with little other obvious use should be prohibited. Such as american healthcare and also guns.

Trilkin

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Re: ideological Discussion
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2011, 03:51:41 AM »
Politics is for suckers.

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Re: ideological Discussion
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2011, 09:35:10 AM »
the world should not even try to progress.

What. 

I think progress is important, but there does come a point where people need to realize that certain things have reached the peak of their progress - and that trying to further certain development is a futile and wasteful exercise.

Progress in some ways is essential - for instance, fossil fuels need alternative power sources developed; or helium which is due to be mostly depleted on Earth in 20 years time (I shit you not http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1305386/Earths-helium-reserves-run-25-years.html )

If we abandon progress then we abandon natures drive to push species forward.  Humanity would become a worthless species no better than bacteria.  Just existing for the sake of existing?  No thank you.  I would rather that our descendants have something to look forward to (not least when the Sun or Andromeda Galaxy destroy the Earth in the distant future).

Anton

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Re: ideological Discussion
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2011, 02:20:18 PM »
I figured the "Quite honestly though" would tick the above off as true trollings but apparently not. Well as long as it sparks debate.

I am actually a bit interested in progress and the politics therein, as I grew up along a pretty big bunch of math nerds I happened to notice this disposition towards development, regardles of outcome. I suppose this is a positive attitude if you wish to come up with many new ideas, but I very often get the feeling something developing further is not always a good thing, quite honestly, the world feels very much the same as it did when I was four or five even though we pride ourselves so much in computers and handy GPSes!
It just feels like more stuff does the same thing.

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Re: ideological Discussion
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2011, 05:24:24 PM »
I think the one true question we're all thinking about is that since we're bringing this "socialist healthcare" back, should we also bring slavery back?

ErebusTheDark

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Re: ideological Discussion
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2011, 09:18:38 PM »
I am a communist who believes society at all is just evil and that the world should not even try to progress.

Communism is a great idea on paper, but unfortunately, it falls apart due to human nature.

I'm just quite humanistic all the time
For one thing I believe everything built to kill with little other obvious use should be prohibited. Such as american healthcare and also guns.

Secular humanism ftw.
Really on the fence about the gun issue. Mainly because making something illegal doesn't stop much. The simpler solution would be making them harder to acquire legally.. higher taxes, passing a test, things of that nature. Total illegality doesn't solve the problem. Historically, look at Prohibition. Now.. look at marijuana. There are things that are hard to obtain because they're illegal, but for something like guns, pure illegality won't help much at all.

American healthcare isn't great but it shouldn't be provided free to everyone.


helium which is due to be mostly depleted on Earth in 20 years time (I shit you not http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1305386/Earths-helium-reserves-run-25-years.html )

It's a bit sickening that governments tend prioritize their own agendas over what the most economical decisions.
But from their standpoint, trying to survive and keep themselves going, it makes sense.
Very limited government is what seems to work best. It pushed Hong Kong from rags to riches.

If we abandon progress then we abandon natures drive to push species forward.  Humanity would become a worthless species no better than bacteria.  Just existing for the sake of existing?  No thank you.  I would rather that our descendants have something to look forward to (not least when the Sun or Andromeda Galaxy destroy the Earth in the distant future).

Developing space travel and such is critical in avoiding mass extinction via the sun or our neighbor Andromeda. Though, I'm doubtful that it will ever become anything like what you see on TV or in movies.
I would argue one of the most difficult things humanity could every try to achieve is planetesimal colonization. It's the only way our species could possibly spread. But the likelihood of a) finding an earth-like planet and b) having enough material to last and expand upon is highly unlikely. And without being able to obtain more supplies or send messages very quickly, it's going to be a bumpy ride. Off a cliff.

I think the one true question we're all thinking about is that since we're bringing this "socialist healthcare" back, should we also bring slavery back?

<3

ErebusTheDark

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2011, 12:54:16 AM »
So, who here is for/against socialized medicine?
Why or why not?

Read these articles regarding health care, and give me your thoughts after reading.
None of them are all that long, just bear with me and give an honest opinion plx.

Article 1
Article 2
Article 3
Article 4
Article 5

Article 3 mentions the average medical student's the average medical student's debt after graduation and the costs of developing new pharmaceutical drugs. They now graduate with $200,000+ in debt, and the average cost of developing new pharmaceuticals is well over $1,000,000,000.

Anton

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2011, 01:16:01 AM »
socialized medicine is a retarded term because while barely any country at all (arguably any country ever) is socialist a very large amount of them have the so called socialized healthcare system.

I tried thinking of ym reasons for being in favor of Universal Healthcare :smile: and so I started reading a bit of your articles and the instant reaction for me was that it costs a lot of money on behalf of the government and others is a strange thing to note as healthcare should be completely focused on the patient and thus I realised I absolutely am in favour of it because of that

ErebusTheDark

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2011, 01:41:08 AM »
When the drug companies don't have to deal with artificial price controls set in place, there's more of an incentive to innovate and develop new drugs, which means the drugs that are most expensive today will likely only get cheaper as time/R&D continues.

While it's a nice idea, it sorta.. does more harm than good.

I found it surprising that 1 out of 3 Canadian doctors sends its patients to the US for treatment.

socialized medicine is a retarded term because while barely any country at all (arguably any country ever) is socialist a very large amount of them have the so called socialized healthcare system.

Whatever you want to call it. Government-run healthcare?
Like what is set up in Canada, where it's illegal to set up a health care clinic that's for profit?
Though, some people still do anyway, and they're pretty popular when people can't get coverage quickly enough.

Read Article 5.
The whole thing.
What reason is there to believe that it is the best solution to health care?

When you see government run hospitals and such in places like Cuba, it's pretty awful. Neglected patients, people dying of starvation, dirty and decrepit buildings.. even having to resort to hanging clothes out the window to dry them.
When health care is left to the free market, it does fuckloads better than when it's controlled by the government.
Just like almsot everything, tbh.

Anton

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2011, 02:02:02 AM »
I think the main issue is how evil things get when money is a big factor in it.
I mean, free markets are often good, but they always create an imbalance in the distribution of all currency and similar mediums of "value"
While the standard honest worker type fellow will sit in his apartment there obviously will be people at the bottom of the stairs who don't have any good way to fit into the economy, they obviously live a less healthy life overall as so much expected to live a normal life isn't as available to them, they may need healthcare more than anyone and that they could be denied that is just inhuman.

ErebusTheDark

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2011, 02:27:21 AM »
While the standard honest worker type fellow will sit in his apartment there obviously will be people at the bottom of the stairs who don't have any good way to fit into the economy, they obviously live a less healthy life overall as so much expected to live a normal life isn't as available to them

There is no economic system in which there will be no unemployment, no poor people, and no people without certain things, such as health care. Pure capitalism will get a society much further along than capitalim/socialism/marxism/whatever.
And not to get health care for free isn't wrong.
You can pay for your own doctor's visits.
When it's nationalized, doctor's don't feel compelled to compete on costs. At all.
Without regulation, it would be a lot cheaper.

Quote from: Anton
they may need healthcare more than anyone and that they could be denied that is just inhuman.

Do you know why many people don't have health care?
They don't want it.
It is becoming more and more common for doctors, physicians, etc now to list their prices and not accept patients with insurance. This way, people think about what the prices are of the things they get and tend not to get things they don't need, because they're spending their own money, rather than someone else's.

I think the main issue is how evil things get when money is a big factor in it.

Why is profit a bad motive? It certainly does more good than bad; the profit motive is what has driven countless innovations in every industry imaginable.

Leska

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2011, 02:41:05 AM »
E: scratch that, your last two posts are absolutely 100% bullshit on just about every point, and your articles are heavily slanted towards inaccurate-ville. Not even worth correcting.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 02:45:10 AM by Alexandra »

ErebusTheDark

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2011, 02:42:58 AM »
Elaborate.

What does the government do better than businesses?

Trilkin

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2011, 03:00:07 AM »
Neither one does their job particularly well, if you ask me.

With both government and business, it's not so much having great successes so much as having the results suck less than they potentially could have.

I think the main issue is how evil things get when money is a big factor in it.

Why is profit a bad motive? It certainly does more good than bad; the profit motive is what has driven countless innovations in every industry imaginable.

Well, if you'll pardon by blunt language, the quest for rendering a service inevitably because a quest for the almighty dollar.
The more successful and strong a business becomes, the company becomes more concerned with the money and less concerned with needs of the customer.

I actually could widen the net and say this can apply to governments as well as businesses. The larger the body, the harder it is for resources to be evenly spread. Self-perpetuation becomes more important that making sure things run well and smoothly.

I don't say this to shoehorn my views or shoot you down, I merely state an observation.

And before anyone prejudges my views, let me say that I'm pretty disinterested and jaded when it comes to the circus of politics and economics.
I'm neither a liberal nor a conservative. Silly titles have no worth.

I'm neither a capitalist or socialist. Both conventions are tainted by human nature and only too vulnerable to corruption. The way I see it, the stronger capitalism grows, the more the wheels spin towards corporatism. The stronger socialism grows, the more it degrades into communism.

I have no real loyalty to either party in my country. I see far more gray than red or blue. Partisanship is a crutch and delaying tool that incapable monkeys use to escape responsibilities and deflect progress. Truly, I care nothing for a politician's platform. If they can't do their job, then their words don't amount to much.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 03:05:13 AM by Trilkin »

SPRKH

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2011, 10:34:25 AM »
I just hope a lot of Americans die because they can't afford treatment.

ErebusTheDark

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2011, 12:02:50 PM »
I just hope a lot of Americans die because they can't afford treatment.

Do you think that's exclusive to the United States?
Do you think that socialized medicine fixes the problem?
It creates a hilariously large shortage.
Thousands of Canadians and Britons die waiting for treatment. The average wait time to get treatment is 5-40 weeks.
You could find a specialist within a week or two tops over here.
Our health care system is more than 50% "socialized" anyway. Has been for a long time.

So what exactly is so bad about it?
Why are people entitled to free health care?

Quote from: Walter Williams (Article 5)
[...]the Mayo Clinic treats more than 7,000 foreign patients a year, the Cleveland Clinic 5,000, Johns Hopkins Hospital treats 6,000, and 1 in 3 Canadian physicians send a patient to the United States for treatment each year.

Currently, 750,000 Brits are awaiting hospital admission. Britain’s National Health Services hopes to achieve an 18-week maximum wait from general practitioner to treatment, including all diagnostic tests, by the end of 2008. The delay in health-care services is not only inconvenient, it’s deadly. Both in Britain and Canada, many patients with diseases that are curable at the time of diagnosis become incurable by the time of treatment or patients become too weak for the surgical procedure. British Prime Minister Gordon Brown plans to introduce a “constitution” setting out the rights and responsibilities of its health-care system. According to a report in the Feb. 1 Telegraph, “What this [Gordon Brown’s plan] seems to amount to in practice are the government’s rights to refuse treatment, and the patient’s responsibilities to live up to what the state decides are model standards.” That means people who have unhealthy habits such as smoking, heart sufferers who are obese or those who fall ill because of failure to take regular exercise might be refused medical care, even though they pay taxes to support government health care.

[...]“more than 70,000 Britons - known as ‘health tourists’ - have gone as far as India, Malaysia and South Africa for major operations. This figure is expected to rise to almost 200,000 by the end of the decade.”

 We have health-care problems in the United States but it’s not because ours is a free market system of health-care delivery. Well more than 50 percent of all health-care expenditures are made by government. Where government spends, government regulates. It’s truly amazing that Americans who are dissatisfied with the current level of socialized medicine in the United States are asking for more of what created the problem in the first place. Anyone thinking that an American version of socialized health care will differ from that found in Canada, Britain, Sweden, France and elsewhere is whistling Dixie.

Neither one does their job particularly well, if you ask me.

Give specific examples of both, if you could.

Well, if you'll pardon by blunt language, the quest for rendering a service inevitably because a quest for the almighty dollar.
The more successful and strong a business becomes, the company becomes more concerned with the money and less concerned with needs of the customer.

I actually could widen the net and say this can apply to governments as well as businesses. The larger the body, the harder it is for resources to be evenly spread. Self-perpetuation becomes more important that making sure things run well and smoothly.

Sometimes, sure. It's not a perfect system.
A government monopoly can be just as bad as a company monopoly.
This is why we have Anti-Trust laws and such.

I have no real loyalty to either party in my country. I see far more gray than red or blue. Partisanship is a crutch and delaying tool that incapable monkeys use to escape responsibilities and deflect progress. Truly, I care nothing for a politician's platform. If they can't do their job, then their words don't amount to much.

Politicians often say what will get them elected and tend not to focus on the specifics during a campaign.
I don't align with any particular party either.
Especially the presidential candidates for 2012. Disgusting.

Simon

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2011, 01:24:54 PM »
Do you think that's exclusive to the United States?
Do you think that socialized medicine fixes the problem?
It creates a hilariously large shortage.
Thousands of Canadians and Britons die waiting for treatment. The average wait time to get treatment is 5-40 weeks.
You could find a specialist within a week or two tops over here.
Our health care system is more than 50% "socialized" anyway. Has been for a long time.
Yeah it's not the case in France, I don't wait 5 days to get my hyper-tension medicine
Blame the execusion not the idea

So what exactly is so bad about it?
Why are people entitled to free health care?
Because they have the right to live even if they are poor ?
Maybe, just maybe, health care in general, shoudn't be about money, because we deal with human lives ? You know like in the Hippocrate's oath?
Taking care of people no matter what ?

ErebusTheDark

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2011, 01:35:41 PM »
You can pay for medicine without health care.
You don't always need the top brand of medicine, sometimes the cheaper, generic brands do the job just fine.

Amd the thing about making it free is that it does absolutely nothing to lower the costs of creating new medicines and drugs.
And forcing particular prices? You're killing the incentive to research, pal.

Leska

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2011, 01:36:44 PM »
 :joebiden:

James

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2011, 01:47:56 PM »
Hi.

I live in Britain.The NHS is great.

cya

Anton

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2011, 02:04:33 PM »
Hi, I'm swedish, if I'm afraid my balls will stop working/my skin is deadly itchy/my ear goes "beep" I can go to the emergency part of the hospital and their resident ballsqueezer/skin checker/ear-flashlighter will check me up free of charge instantly. They don't use any money for this, just the time of the ball-squeezer/skin checker/ear flashlighter. This is important biz cause if this wasn't possible I could lose my balls/sanity/hearing and I don't want to have to pay to keep those.

Simon

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2011, 02:46:12 PM »
You can pay for medicine without health care.
Some can't, not a reason to leave them sick

You don't always need the top brand of medicine, sometimes the cheaper, generic brands do the job just fine.
I'm not farting in satin, working medecine will do fine

Amd the thing about making it free is that it does absolutely nothing to lower the costs of creating new medicines and drugs.
And forcing particular prices? You're killing the incentive to research, pal.
Bullshit, you should see the benefit each pharmaceutical company do each year, most of their medecine is usesell crap barely getting over the placebo effects
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 03:27:29 PM by Simon »

Anton

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2011, 03:11:30 PM »

Bullshit, you should see the benefit each pharmaceutical do each year, most their medecine is usesell crap barelly getting over the blacebo effects
Cool spelling there Simon, have you been hitting the firewater?

Also farting in satin is a fantastic expression.

Simon

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2011, 03:24:30 PM »

Bullshit, you should see the benefit each pharmaceutical do each year, most their medecine is usesell crap barelly getting over the blacebo effects
Cool spelling there Simon, have you been hitting the firewater?

Also farting in satin is a fantastic expression.
Arg sry will fix that, I'm at work >_>
Also farting in satin is a french expression
Actualy it's farting in silk, but in sounded better with satin
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 03:27:01 PM by Simon »

Anton

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2011, 03:40:42 PM »
Searching for farting in satin on google turned out to be a bad idea. Oh people and their fetishes.

Leska

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2011, 07:03:19 PM »
Bullshit, you should see the benefit each pharmaceutical company do each year, most of their medecine is usesell crap barely getting over the placebo effects

There's also that whole fact that governments are the largest single entities performing pharma research and that big pharma is one of the most profitable industries on the planet thanks to the US' fucked up laws, allowing them to charge whatever the fuck they want while advertising drugs to individual people, ignoring that even if they couldn't do that they'd still be insanely profitable.

But nop, instead we have FREEDOM FREEDOM FREEDOM PRIVATE INDUSTRY LIBERTARIANISM over here in the states for healthcare, excluding Oregon and Vermont and their 'fuck you I do what I wants' and implementing single-payer healthcare at a state level. My personal favorite bit is that judges in the states have ruled that people don't have a right to die, which is just the icing on the cake for our shit healthcare, imo.

Also lol, whenever I post in an Erebus thread, I notice my grammar go to absolute shit. Clearly, I am mad.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 07:05:10 PM by Alexandra »

Simon

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2011, 07:08:37 PM »
But nop, instead we have FREEDOM FREEDOM FREEDOM PRIVATE INDUSTRY LIBERTARIANISM over here in the states for healthcare, excluding Oregon and Vermont and their 'fuck you I do what I wants' and implementing single-payer healthcare at a state level. My personal favorite bit is that judges in the states have ruled that people don't have a right to die, which is just the icing on the cake for our shit healthcare, imo.

Also lol, whenever I post in an Erebus thread, I notice my grammar go to absolute shit. Clearly, I am mad.
Thing will be better when people will understand that freedom isn't about doing what ever the fuck you want

Leska

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2011, 07:13:00 PM »
Thing will be better when people will understand that freedom isn't about doing what ever the fuck you want

BUT BUT THE FREE MARKET!

Personally, I agree. Ofc, a lot of Americans love to believe in shit like death panels, which are pretty much existent in insurance-based healthcare anyways, so we have a long way to go to catch up with the rest of the civilized world.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 07:14:42 PM by Alexandra »

Trilkin

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Re: Ideological Discussion
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2011, 08:22:28 PM »
Give specific examples of both, if you could.
Do you really want to hear my reasons, really?

Well, if you really want to listen to me rant, then I suppose I could give examples, anecdotal though they might be.

I'm currently having to use Medicaid as my med insurance provider and take SSI. I have disabilities, so I have a perfect right to use them. I'm not a good-for-nothing leech who sits around and mooches. SSI is a slippery and aggravating. I'm trying to find a job and have taken several temporary jobs over the years to help me train for a career and help me pay bills.

But it feels like the system is designed to make one depend on the government. I been constantly bothered by the SSI office about "make more than allowed", even though I supposedly have what's called a "ticket to work". My SSI gets cut because I actually tried to do something with myself.
I wouldn't be so pissed if they were prompt with their warnings. But no, of course not. They wait a half frackin' year to complain. On top of that, they make me pay a damn fine for "overpayment" even though it's their own fuckin' fault for not keeping up to date.

Once I had my Medicaid cut because of these "overpayments". So  I went to the fuckin' Social Sec office, sat the Hell down and waited for my number to be called. Get called and listen to this disgruntled priggish desk jockey talk my ears off, then she proceeds to tell me the whole problem was because of a clerical error and that it was "just a matter of her changing numbers" and that she'd have to get back to me (translation: "Your problems are no concern of mine, so I really have no reason to care").

So my mom and I called Senator Doggett's office and one of his aides help us iron this out.

So it worked in the end (I guess), but my point is, the system should be this crippled. Why's it have to be such a headache.

As to private businesses, I have a few stories there, too.

My beef is with Seton, a huge healthcare company that pretty much owns everything medically related in Austin.
This was at their overhyped Dell Children's Medical Center.
They claim to care about all people and want a fair, high standard or quality. Since their company takes their name from St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, they also claim to be heirs to her legacy and proponents of Christian values and compassion. However, after serving for almost two years with their staff and hearing plenty of stories from friends and family, I can say they are neither fair nor particularly "Christian" or "compassionate".

They had this program called "SEARCH", which I joined with bunch of other people with disabilities. They claimed they wanted to help us find fitting work in the hospital. We worked as "interns" to "gain work experience." Allegedly, if we did well enough, we'd have a chance at permanent jobs. I should have known better. They were just using us for free labor.

I worked in Sterile Processing assembling surgical trays. I was good at it. Damn good. I built a decent rapport with the staff in the department as well and felt welcome.

Well, I should have known it was a sham. As time went on, the company communicated less and less with the program.
When the program ended, I stupidly stayed on, thinking that showing extra initiative would help me. Bah.
Months and months went by and nothing really happened. I started wondering if I was being had. I asked questions, but only got the excuse that they needed to "create a job description" for me. Yeah, they "wanted" to hire me, but had to adapt a job description to conform to my disbabilities. "Carving", they called it.

More time when by, more excuses that they were trying to "carve" the job.

(Just to add more insult, their hospital clergy turned out to be as shallow as a rain puddle.
They touted themselves as compassionate and caring. They gave PA announcements that "all were welcome" for communion in the hospital chapel.
So I went up, prayed, and took communion, then when I was about to leave, I asked a few questions about Saul of Tarsus.
Well, the priest got flustered and started hitting me with questions, had I read this, what faith was I, etc.
I mentioned I was Methodist. Wooh, big mistake. Got my ears boxed, was told that he wouldn't answer my questions or let me take communion because I was not a Catholic.

Er, yeah. Really fits with "all are welcome," huh?
Needless to say, I didn't go back. Because that's what Jesus would do, right? "If you're not the same as me, go away!")

Back to the job. By the time I'd worked for about 17 months, I lose my patience and demanded to talk to the guy in charge of that circus.
So this executive guy and his stooge told me that they hadn't been able to find a job that fit me...even though I'd worked in the same department for 17 months. They gave me an offer, though. Custodial work. I immediately turned it down. To me, that was worse than insulting. They were then like "are you sure?" I angrily said I was sure and that I would never accept such a pathetic offer.

That was the end of that. I've remained bitter toward the company ever since.

It's not just me, either. Many people I known have been treated poorly by the hospitals staff. My mom's best friend took one of her sick children to the ER, or tried to. She was grilled with a bunch of off-the-wall questions, then sent off to wait. The wait was long and tiresome.

My sister was sick once and went there. The attending staff was rude and disinterested and was barely helpful at all.

The hospital likes to act like it cares about it's patients, but I know it's a lie. They're more concerned with PR and profit. They say they want to treat kids, but they really mean they want to treat really young kids who can barely talk or think for themselves. Better to walk all over them I guess.

I'm not dead-on convinced that this is how most hospitals and companies operate. Profits first, customers second, employees barely worth consideration.

Is this a personal experience coloring my view of businesses? Yes.
Is it a subjective view? Yes.

But that hardly makes me wrong.
Personal experiences can make or break businesses.
If it's happened to me and my friends, it's probably happened to many other people.

There you go, a big boring-ass worthless rant. My examples. Bet you regret asking me, right?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 08:28:17 PM by Trilkin »